Avenged616

Clarification

12 posts in this topic

Could someone please help me out here, I've had it confirmed that if I have a junior licence (not ukara registered) then it will be fine for my dad to buy an IF, gift it to me and then I turn it into an RIF. If I apply for the bronze membership, then is that classed as a junior membership (I'm nearly 17), therefore making me a leagle skirmisher. Thnaks in advance guys, Ali.

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you CAN NOT turn a 2 tone IF into a RIF before you have you ukara...or bad things will happen

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Lets put it this way. Your dad is not entitled to buy a RIF. You are not entitled to buy any airsoft guns.

 

So how does your dad buying you an IF and you being under 18 with a junior membership give you a legal defence under the VCRA to manufacture a RIF?

 

Simple answer is it does not. If you cannot go out and prove a defence under the VCRA to buy a RIF you cannot spray any gun and make it one.

 

Your dad is permitted to buy you a 2 tone gun and gift it to you. Nothing more. You spray it, you are committing a very serious offence.

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But if this lad attends an airsoft skirmish he can rent a RIF. Thusly, I am sure that if Avenged616's dad attended an airsoft skirmish and then bought an IF from which he manufactured a RIF he could then lend that RIF to his son for use at a skirmish quite legitimately and within the scope of the VCRA.

 

EDIT: UKARA membership is not a requirement of the VCRA but rather is one option to fulfil a requirement of said act.

Edited by Nub

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But if this lad attends an airsoft skirmish he can rent a RIF. Thusly, I am sure that if Avenged616's dad attended 3 airsoft skirmishes in more than 2 months and then bought an RIF from which he manufactured a RIF he could then lend that RIF to his son for use at a skirmish quite legitimately and within the scope of the VCRA.

 

EDIT: UKARA membership is not a requirement of the VCRA but rather is one option to fulfil a requirement of said act.

 

Edited for inaccurates. Avenged616's Dad can buy (assuming he is over 18) a IF at any time regardless of if he has attended a skirmish then lend it or gift it to his son.

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Could someone please help me out here, I've had it confirmed that if I have a junior licence (not ukara registered) then it will be fine for my dad to buy an IF, gift it to me and then I turn it into an RIF. If I apply for the bronze membership, then is that classed as a junior membership (I'm nearly 17), therefore making me a leagle skirmisher. Thnaks in advance guys, Ali.

 

 

First things first shall we

 

there is NO such thing as a "junior licence" fuill stop, doesnt exist , end of story

there is NO such thing in law as an airsoft licence.

 

 

The VCR covers the SALE , Importation AND Manufacutre of a RIF and IF

 

Under 18 ,

you CAN NOT buy/import/manufacture a RIF or a IF , end of story.

 

 

Over 18

 

your dad , If over 18, May buy a IF for himself, and Loan it to you > 100% correct.

your dad, if over 18, May buy a IF and GIFT it to you > Depends If you give him the money for it, its not a gift, period.

Your dad , if coverd by the specific defence (play 3 games in not less than 2 months ) can buy a RIF for himself, Can loan / lend it to you can Gift it to you (but not if it was your money paying for it,, thats NOT a gift )

 

Under 18s are excluded by age from obtaining the defence, and thusly excluded from buying/making/importing.

 

Any purchase by you = illegal,

Any importing by you > illegal

And ANY MANUFACTURING by you = Illegal.

 

that Covers converting a IF into a RIF , you are under 18 , you can NOT be covered by the specific defence = it is illegal.

 

 

 

 

 

"nealry 17" means yor are under 18,,

 

Use a "IF" if you really have to, or rent.

Edited by andy-d

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Your dad , if coverd by the specific defence (play 3 games in not less than 2 months )

 

The VCRA states that you must be a skirmisher to purchase a RIF, UKARA states you must play 3 games in not less than 2 months. Membership of a site and playing once a year is quite enough to satisfy the requirements of the VCRA.

 

lordelplus, thanks for that, you've corrected innacuracies that should have been blazingly obvious to me, I'm not sure what the hell I was smoking when I wrote that. However I must disagree with some of your use of red: The father need only attend one skirmish in order to purchase a RIF. I've tested this with HMRC on import, I'm sure you're probably right on purchase within the UK but only because retailers are too scared to sell outside of UKARA guidlines not because of law or statute. This is a point I am going to keep stressing because UKARA are really doing UK airsofters a great diservice by making these demands.

 

That aside, presuming the father owns a RIF, how do you interpret the VCRA on his ability to loan that RIF to his sub 18 y/o son for use on a site? The only difference I can see between this and rental from a site would be the insurance aspect. This subject really does irritate me because it seems a lot easier to send under 18s off with shotguns/firearms for a days hunting than with airsoft guns.

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Just because customs has allowed it doesn't make it law. Our defence against being arrested for importing RIFs is dependant on 3 games in more than 2 months and membership at a site with PLI so tested or not, he was lucky.

Edited by lordelpus

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VCRA requires you to be a recognised skirmisher. We have phone calls asking us whether someone is a player at first and only and whether they are eligible to purchase a gun. UKARA is just one way to show you are a skirmisher.

 

Retailers are not scared to sell to people without UKARA but agree to only sell to UKARA registered players when they themselves sign up.

 

As an organisation we support UKARA and while it can appear inconvenient it has been instrumental in saving our hobby. So remember without it you probably wouldn't have anywhere to skirmish let alone buy a RIF.

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Anyone truely serious about partaking in airsoft should be able to satisfy the requirements of defence without questioning it .

 

Anyone looking to circumvent the defence is obvious not serious enough to stick with it for 70 days and therefore should not be able to obtain defence

 

Collectors need not apply

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The VCRA states that you must be a skirmisher to purchase a RIF, UKARA states you must play 3 games in not less than 2 months. Membership of a site and playing once a year is quite enough to satisfy the requirements of the VCRA.

 

 

 

eerr no

the VCRA states that you must be a recognised skirmisher, and then goes on to state what/how that is defined.

 

the "3 games in not less than 2 months" part IS laid down in law by HMG ,

 

it also states that it would be at a "recognised and organised airsoft site",, and the guidance notes with the act define that as "properly organised with relavent public liablity insurance"

 

you appear have mixed up the "vcra" and "ukara" there,, as it is Ukara who set time limits on when/how/what your registration with them is valid/invalid, the VCR itself does NOT set limits on the continued coverage by the specific defence.

 

you Must abide by the qualifying parts to Gain the defence, Keeping it ,, isnt actually coverd within the scope of the VCRA or its support notes.

 

 

and ,,if anyone, i really should know ,, seeing as it was i who wrote the proposal and submitted it TO hmg back in 2007. Ms H Blears was Really100% against even discussing the matter untill i got my MP to present the proposal with her full support, Then we (airsofters/retailers/site opperators) were able to start the talks, the only Changes HMG made to the orriginal proposal was to the Time limit and number of games, they Added the "in not less than" words. That gripes my boat , far too many spout off while being bemused and not fully understanding, then get shirty when corrected, fortunatly you seem not to ge one of the shirty ones.

 

Loan and rental

its easy, the Scope and remit of the VCR does NOT cover loan or rental.

it covers

The sale / purchase

The importation/causing to be imported

The manufacture.

 

An owner of a RIF may loan it to another person, that is 100% legal

An owner of a RIF may Rent it to another person that is 100% legal

 

as for the "u18's " points ,, so ? and ? there are age limits in place for a lot of things, you can not drive cars/ride motorbikes untill XX age,, and you now can not buy/import/manufacture airsoft RIF:S/if's untill 18,

 

We had a fight back in 2007 as HMG Wanted to ban Totally the sale/importation/manufacture of ALL airsoft guns, rif/if the lot. That would have meant the end of airsoft, no new players since 2007 , no new rifles / pistols, no new sites,, and closure of the existing ones as the player base dwindled.

HMG were 100% Against any format of specific defence or exemptions.For ALL ages. WE had a royal fight to get Any sort of exemption or specific defence, it was made Very very clear that including u18s in Any way shape or format would result in the refusal of Everything. Under 18 the law see's you as a "child" , and there was No way HMG would or will allow a Child to own/import /make any airsoft rifle/pistol. So die we "save" airsoft for the over 18's (who are the Bulk of the airsofters out there) or loose the lot trying to get the Small % included???,,

 

make no mistake the "gun" laws in this country are a total "i dont belive it" and far and away messed up, you have the "media" and "hmg" to thank for that, its almost totally socially unacceptable to Dare to challange the ownership of any firearm, and your worse than a mass murderer if you do in the eyes of the "general public",,

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Locked as this has run its course and will just end up another ukara argument which we have seen/had many times.

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